The Golden Collective

FIVE

2008-03-24T23:24:00.004-04:00

...
Gold: "I have an allegory for all of you."
Umbra: "You? The paragon of don't-think-just-act?"
Gold: "The very same. It simply appeared, an image... Here it is..."

"In an endless wilderness, there is a log cabin... really just a room. There is no door... just one large glass window. In the cabin a man sits, in a chair he built himself. He stares out the window endlessly, occasionally pausing to stand up, to admire the chair that he built, the cabin he constructed around him, to press his hand against the glass, watching the wind whispering through the trees."

Jigen: "I think I know what it means, but tell us just the same."
Gold: "The man is mankind. He exists, intentionally separated from nature, that exists around him and never can be fully understood by him, and thus he simply marvels at it. The cabin is his restriction, his separation from the natural world... and the chair is artifice, technology. He is proud of it, yet is somewhat disappointed in that it always seems incomplete."
Umbra: "We don't know what to make of that."
Gold: "Make of it what you like. I think it means more than it seems..."
...

FOUR

2007-11-21T10:54:00.000-05:00

...
Jigen: "I've always supported the rights of women, but this is ridiculous."
Umbra: "What's pissing us off now? The fact that a woman can get out of a murder charge by crying in court, or the fact that they invent problems intentionally in order to further their own cause?"
Jigen: "Well...both, I suppose. But really, right now, the second one. Some women are going too far... to abuse their rights as humans, and avoid their responsibilities as humans, all while complaining of injustices from the past that they've never experienced."
Gold: "It's species memory. You can't shake the past, because really the past could've been you."
Jigen: "No, it couldn't have been, because you're here now!"
Umbra: "What about reincarnation?"
Jigen: "If you don't remember experiencing it, it doesn't matter whether you reincarnated or not."
Umbra: "Are we saying that memory defines everything?"
Jigen: "I actually hadn't gotten that far... but maybe it does. It reminds me of Dresden Codak's 'Epilogue': the idea that memories are contained within the object itself, and when you find it, those memories come rushing back."
Gold: "I was never one for the idea of repression - it's not as fun - but maybe the memories are just squirreled away inside your head."
Jigen: "I guess I was just annoyed that so many 'Feminists' are just hypocrites. Most of the true supporters of women are making their own changes. Just yelling at everyone until they go away shouldn't be the basis for Feminism."
Gold: "...A female John Baird?"
Umbra: "...Even we find that unpleasant."
...

THREE

2007-11-13T14:05:00.000-05:00

...
Jigen: "So many people keep telling me that they mean well for me, that things are done 'for the best'. I'm starting to have trouble believing them...it almost seems like there are fewer and fewer I can genuinely trust...besides the Silver."
Umbra: "Of course they say it, it's in their nature. They want you to unconditionally accept everything. We don't need to be concerned with this."
Jigen: "I'm not sure about that. It just seems that people will lie to you in order to explain things later, and then blame you when you don't understand. For example: the entire school system is a series of slowly dissipating lies."
Umbra: "Isn't that the point of it?"
Jigen: "No! The point is to inform and educate. And create social experiences. But the problem is, they're too busy treating us like children to actually teach. In later years, they'll tell you that what you learned before was all wrong - but it was just simpler."
Gold: "School should be more spartan. Tough, but logical and fair. Preferably with more emergency drills to keep them on their claws."
Jigen: "Once a month was bad enough. That stupid day when it rang five times in a row, at the end of the day... I could have beaten someone with my little backpack."
Gold: "But of course, they coddled you, and you didn't have the strength or reflexes to do so."
Jigen: "I was exaggerating. And this is getting off-topic."
Umbra: "We just think this is flogging a dead horse. School is strange, we get it. It's the democracy of education. It's horseshit, but it's the best horseshit we've got."
Jigen: "Hey!"
Umbra: "What? We don't give a damn about your rules. You can't control us, just chain us."
Jigen: "Feh. You're just trying to incense me."
Gold: "This is great! We've never been this off-topic! But still... Umbra, you'll have to explain better than just 'bitch bitch conspiracy theory bitch' to convince me."
Umbra: "We do not need to explain, you already know our reasons. The school system teaches us to be a good little robot. But it doesn't work, and never has - that's the point. It's controlled rebellion."
Jigen: "That's one of the most cynical things I've ever heard."
Umbra: "Remember who you're talking to..."
...

TWO

2007-11-10T21:43:00.000-05:00

...
Umbra: "We're wondering...are humans the pinnacle of evolution?"
Jigen: "I sincerely doubt it."
Umbra: "What we mean is that when humans gained the ability of evolving on their own, the earth ceased to evolve. We're stuck with the same damn animals."
Jigen: "Maybe you're just thinking small scale. Evolution is a long process."
Umbra: "But maybe the world did cease to evolve. Perhaps humans are the final step of the earth's evolution, and the first step of their own."
Jigen: "I think if that were true, there would be nothing on this planet but humans...to be a pinnacle, they probably shouldn't have competition."
Umbra: "Who says they have competition?"
Jigen: "...there's something very unsettling about that."
Ursa: "Just because a species can kill itself, it doesn't make it transcendent. In fact, I'd say any species that will voluntarily kill itself is not worth having.
Umbra: "You're just saying that because you're not human."
Ursa: "A petty distinction. It still concerns me, obviously..."
...

ONE

2007-10-31T21:35:00.000-04:00

...
Umbra: "We know that things continue, cause and effect and all that, so at the end of the world, wouldn't there be something after? On the other side of a wall, isn't there something?"
Jigen: "Really, it's not a wall: it's more of a lack of a wall. Well...really...a lack of anything. Just like before the beginning of everything."
Umbra: "The Big Bang doesn't quite explain the beginning, because it in itself is something."
Jigen: "True."
Umbra: "What is the First Cause then? Was Aquinas right?"
Jigen: "There isn't one! Things simply were not, and then they were - to go from nothing to something could not have God, because God, however intangible or noumenal, is still SOMETHING! Aquinas was just trying to pimp the God concept."
Umbra: "Well, that's a vaguely disturbing image."
Jigen: "That it is."
...

THE RULES

2001-01-01T12:00:00.001-05:00

Debates are open, as long as they remain on topic. Swearing is looked down on.
The intent is to debate and pose new ideas, not to start pointless arguments.
Any comment that is unrelated will be deleted.
It isn't required to reply in conversational format, but it is more interesting.

THE COLLECTIVE

2001-01-01T12:00:00.000-05:00

Jigen
The primary member of the Collective. The majority of the debates are addressed to issues that he concerns himself with.

Umbra
The most talkative member of the Collective, Umbra stands as a dark parallel, and frequently attempts to play devil's advocate.

Ursa
The quietest member of the Collective, who only speaks when he feels it necessary. He is noted for his nobility and equilibrium, but also his cold and efficient logic.

Gold
The most radical member of the Collective: Gold is forceful, strong and outright emotional...but possibly the kindest as well.